My Conversation with Two Mormon Elders

In Escondido, CA on Oct. 1st, Monday, around 11:40 am, I was riding my bike on my way to the post office when I saw two Mormon elders walking to a neighborhood. They were Elders Parker and Orr. We exchanged greetings and I started out by saying that I have a testimony of the Book of Mormon and that I knew Joseph Smith was a true Prophet of God. They seemed very pleased. I continued by saying that however I am not part of the Church and that I believed the current Church had departed from the teachings set out by the original Church. I explained that the Church ceased to receive "Thus saith the Lord" revelations. I said the last revelation was written by President Wilford Woodruff in 1889, a year before the 1890 Manifesto that overturned polygamy as Church doctrine ( a man made fabrication that the leaders wrote to avoid persecution from the federal government although then President John Taylor in 1886 received a "Thus saith the Lord" revelation saying that plural marriage is an everlasting principle and cannot be done away with: http://www.artbulla.com/zion/1886.html) Elder Parker did most of the talking. He was obviously the file leader. He said how he knew that Gordon B. Hinckley is a true Prophet and that the Spirit is with him. I preached to both of them about how the Church apostatized. I pulled out my laptop and showed them the following quote by Brigham Young:

"Let this Church which is called the Kingdom of God on the earth. We will summons the First Presidency, the Twelve, the High Council, the Bishopric, and all the Elders of Israel, suppose we summons them to appear here, and here declare that it is right to mingle our seed, with the black race of Cain, that they shall come in with us and be partakers with us of all the blessings that God has given to us. on that very day and hour we should do so, the Priesthood is taken from THIS CHURCH AND KINGDOM and god leaves us to our fate. The moment we consent to mingle with the seed of Cain, the Church must go to destruction we should receive the curse which has been placed upon the seed of Cain, and never more be numbered with the children of Adam who are heirs to the Priesthood until that curse be removed."

(Brigham Young Addresses, Ms D, 1234, Box 48, Folder 3, dated Feb. 5, 1852, located in the LDS Historical Dept. SLC, UT.)

Elder Parker expressed skepticism that this was a real quote from Brigham Young. I talked about the One Mighty and Strong and the two Messiahs , one to Judah and one to Ephraim. I described how after King Solomon died Israel was divided into two nations, the Northern Kingdom and the Southern Kingdom. The tribes Judah, Benjamin, and Levi made up the Southern and the Northern was comprised of Ephraim and the rest of the 8 tribes. I said Ephraim was attacked and taken captive by Assyria around 750 BC and scattered through Europe completely losing its national heritage. I said Judah was invaded and taken away into captivity by Babylon around 600 BC but after 70 years a few thousand returned and restored their nation. Elder Parker agreed with this fact of history. I said Jesus was the Only Begotten and was Messiah to the Jews. He asked me if I knew what Messiah means. I said it means "Lord's Anointed" which he agreed with me. I said Ephraim has its own Messiah.

1 NOW the sons of Reuben the firstborn of Israel, (for he [was] the firstborn; but, forasmuch as he defiled his father's bed, his birthright was given unto the sons of Joseph the son of Israel: and the genealogy is not to be reckoned after the birthright.
2 For Judah prevailed above his brethren, and of him [came] the chief ruler; but the birthright [was] Joseph's (:)
(1 Chronicle 5:1-2)

19 Say unto them, Thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I will take the stick of Joseph, which [is] in the hand of Ephraim, and the tribes of Israel his fellows, and will put them with him, [even] with the stick of Judah, and make them one stick, and they shall be one in mine hand.

(Ezek 37:19)


34 Behold, this is the blessing of the everlasting God upon the tribes of Israel, and the richer blessing upon the head of Ephraim and his fellows.
35 And they also of the tribe of Judah, after their pain, shall be sanctified in holiness before the Lord, to dwell in his presence day and night, forever and ever.

(D&C 133:34-35)

"EPHRAIM PRESIDES OVER ALL ISRAEL. I take it we, the members of the Church, most of us of the tribe of Ephraim, are of the remnant of Jacob. We know it to be the fact that the Lord called upon the descendants of Ephraim to commence his work in the earth in these last days. We know further that he has said that he set Ephraim, according to the promises of his birthright, at the head, Ephraim receives the "richer blessings," these blessings being those of presidency or direction. The keys are with Ephraim. It is Ephraim who is to be endowed with power to bless and give to the other tribes, including the Lamanites, their blessings. All the other tribes of Jacob, including the Lamanites, are to be crowned with glory in Zion by the hands of Ephraim. "
(Joseph Fielding Smith, Doctrines of Salvation, 3 vols., edited by Bruce R. McConkie, 2:, p.250)

He asked me throughout our conversation if the Church no longer holds the keys who does. So I finally talked about Art Bulla. I said in 1969 he was 21 years old in North Carolina, walking to the bus depot to join the army when he had a vision where he saw and spoke to God face to face for close to an hour. I compared his vision to Paul's:

2 I knew a man in Christ above fourteen years ago, (whether in the body, I cannot tell; or whether out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;) such an one caught up to the third heaven.
3 And I knew such a man, (whether in the body, or out of the body, I cannot tell: God knoweth;)
4 How that he was caught up into paradise, and heard unspeakable words, which it is not lawful for a man to utter.
(2 Cor 12:2-4)

I told them a couple years later in 1971 he was stationed in Fort Sam, Houston when he was reading the first chapter of the Book of Mormon when he felt the Spirit powerfully. He was baptized into the Church that year and was an Elder until ordained a 70 Apostle by Rex D. Pinegar in 1974. I said that Brigham Young stated if all the 12 and the Seventies had died except one Seventy he had the keys to build up the entire Kingdom of God. After the apostasy happened after blacks were given the Priesthood in 1978, the keys to the Priesthood was taken from the Church and given to the hands of Art Bulla. The President of the Church is a separate office from the Lord's Anointed.

Excerpt from a letter Art written to Ogden Kraut:

"Now suppose the entire First Quorum had apostacized or were killed by a mob, along with the Twelve and First Presidency, which many claim is impossible, because the Lord would never allow it, then the Lord could by Revelation to an Apostle, proceed to direct and reorganize the Kingdom of God upon the earth, by direct Revelation, with all the keys of the Priesthood encompassed, as Brigham learned by experience and by precept from the mouth of Joseph Smith himself, saith the Lord, but which knowledge was lost in succeeding generations through a gradual apostasy, within the Apostleship which is held and recognized of the Lord by that one faithful Apostle, or Seventy. The Lord could and has directed him and given him the sealing power, which is already, by ordination, encompassed within the Apostleship, the Lord merely by revelation agreeing that whatsoever he would bind on earth would be bound in heaven, etc. He would need no further ordination, as did not Brigham, by the laying on of the hands, except in the matter of reorganizing the other presiding quorums, which I am at present doing in the name of the Lord God of Brigham Young. The other quorums being the First Quorum of Seventy, the Twelve and the First Presidency, which are all absolutely necessary, saith the Lord, for the perfection of the Saints, and the work of the ministry, and shall never in time or in eternity be done away, for this Order continueth in the Resurrrection from the dead, saith the Lord, and shall not be abrogated among the wicked of the Saints of the Most High, by their unrighteous decrees which are not of me, saith the Lord, but must be maintained exactly as set up by my servant Joseph in all holiness before me, saith the Lord.

"It is now that I, Art Bulla declare unto the world that such an apostasy has indeed occurred among those whose duty it was to preserve it as handed down to them from under the hands of Peter, James and John, who are Gods, namely because of their great wickedness, the details of which I have received through direct revelation, the which I invite all to examine freely as to its authenticity. Consequently, the Lord has commanded and directed me to begin the work preparatory to the complete restoration of all of Israel among the nations of the earth, among those who will receive of his word and authoritative direction. The rest, saith the Lord, shall be burned at my coming in the clouds of heaven. There are others who can with power testify to the veracity and authority of this work, as witnesses, namely George Robert Allen and others who will remain unnamed at this time. All who ernestly pray concerning these things will receive it also, and I care not if the whole world perish, if they harden their hearts against it, for can they do anything more unto me, that they did unto the Lord's Only Begotten Son?"

Throughout our conversation, Elder Parker had an arrogant attitude about him although I could tell he and Elder Orr were very interested in what I had to say. Two other Elders stopped by and they had to leave so that concluded our meeting. Before we parted company I wrote down the website address on a piece of paper and gave it to them. He gave me a piece of paper with information about the Conference meeting that weekend.